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Conclusions from Internal Affairs, a new Dev Blog from Arkanon

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 4 post(s)
Azerrad InExile	Posted - 2007.05.30 02:17:00 - [1] No timestamps on the petitions, especially the one relating to the MSN charge. Questionable at best.... -- t20: "So Let us play and enjoy the game you and I both love on the same level."
Azerrad InExile	Posted - 2007.05.30 02:41:00 - [2] Originally by: Kirika Misono I hate to fan the flames of paranoia, but I'd say that , yes, that one cap is definatly in MS word, with the default grammer and spelling correction settings. Heh... that is rather funny actually. Especially considering CCPs official stance on screen grabs in petitions is that they can not be used as evidence since they can be edited. -- t20: "So Let us play and enjoy the game you and I both love on the same level."
Azerrad InExile	Posted - 2007.05.30 02:43:00 - [3] Originally by: Kuseka Adama MS word can be used for emails in conjunction with the outlook program if that was the program used then it would look as you see it there. Pretty sure that only happens when you are editing or writing the e-mails though. If you are just looking at mail that has been sent it doesn't do the spelling/grammar check stuff shown in the screen shot. -- t20: "So Let us play and enjoy the game you and I both love on the same level."
Azerrad InExile	Posted - 2007.05.31 02:27:00 - [4] Originally by: Popsikle You are aware that iceland is not part of the EU right? But they do operate in the EU and would most likely be subject to EU law for that reason. -- t20: "So Let us play and enjoy the game you and I both love on the same level."
Azerrad InExile	Posted - 2007.05.31 02:53:00 - [5] Originally by: Popsikle No. They arent. You cannot be subject to laws that govern a body outside of your own, otherwise china would be ****** by Us copyright laws... Does China have any operations in the US? -- t20: "So Let us play and enjoy the game you and I both love on the same level."
Azerrad InExile	Posted - 2007.05.31 02:56:00 - [6] Edited by: Azerrad InExile on 31/05/2007 02:54:56 Originally by: Popsikle 95% of the crap we buy in the US says made in china... ;p And guess what... all that crap is subject to US copyright law. -- t20: "So Let us play and enjoy the game you and I both love on the same level."
Azerrad InExile	Posted - 2007.05.31 05:47:00 - [7] Originally by: Xthril Ranger Go back and read the devblog and the picture of the petition screen against the isd reporter: http://www.eve-online.com/bitmaps/img/devblog/Raekhan_petition.jpg There is no mention of the isd reporters name in the petition as far as I can tell. That gives us some options: 1: ccp admiral something somehow guessed (whitin minutes) what fleet was bumped and who the bumping character was? 2: someone messaged the admiral (with msn?) and asked him to fire the reporter, then filed the petition and the admiral intercepted petition in the queue and dealt with it. All to make it look legit. 3: the petition is a fake made later. That petition is not enough to identify the reporter! LOL.. completely missed that fact. -- t20: "So Let us play and enjoy the game you and I both love on the same level."
Azerrad InExile	Posted - 2007.05.31 06:34:00 - [8] Originally by: D1ck Jones zzzzzzz Some people will believe whatever they want no matter what. I hear there are weapons of MD in iraq yet. You have to admit that Xrthril's conclusions are mostly correct based on that evidence. Said a little more generally, since the ISD members name was not listed in the petition, the CCP admiral guy must have obtained the name through means other than that petition. Whether it was through MSN or some other method we don't have enough information to really say, but its fairly obvious that the petition screenshot shown in the dev blog was not the source. -- t20: "So Let us play and enjoy the game you and I both love on the same level."
Azerrad InExile	Posted - 2007.05.31 06:45:00 - [9] Originally by: ChironV Perhaps the Goons and their supporters should organize a "Month off". Take a month off, enjoy June weather, kick back. Give everyone time to cool down. Also it would give CCP an idea on how many people really are displeased with the outcome so far. Come back in July and decide how you want to proceed. Set some big 42 day skills and recharge the Eve batteries. If you pay in advance you can't really deactivate your account until your current time expires, so it would be hard to organize on a widespread level. -- t20: "So Let us play and enjoy the game you and I both love on the same level."
Azerrad InExile	Posted - 2007.05.31 07:05:00 - [10] Originally by: Trelennen A bit more fuel to the fire: I looked a bit more at the petition. As we can see, all three of the characters are docked in station, which means the petition can't possibly have been made right after the incident, and hence as definitely been made AFTER Admiral Chamrajnagar stepped onto ISD IRC Channel (and the petitioner use the past tense and didn't say it just happened). One more reason which tends to say this petition is completely bogus and made "just for the show" afterwards, maybe even during the process of this WE's "investigation". In fairness the "STATION" field isn't necessarily the current location. It could be the last station the character was docked at. -- t20: "So Let us play and enjoy the game you and I both love on the same level."

Azerrad InExile	Posted - 2007.05.31 07:13:00 - [11] Originally by: Trelennen Ok, my bad. Though that's seem odd. Are you sure of that? 'cause that's not something we can know except if some dev of gm tells us so, as we don't have access to this information (and I think I remember from the tests I had done a while ago for IGB that the IGB function giving the current station was not reporting any station when in space, but I might remember wrongly). Let me rephrase that a little better... we don't know if the "STATION" field is the current location. It is entirely possible (and fairly likely since I'm pretty sure the petition system is nothing more than a glorified web page) that that station listed in the petition and the IGB tag is the same and if the IGB station reports as empty when undocked it is would be odd for the petition station field to do otherwise. However, just going by the information listed in the screenshot its impossible to tell if "STATION" and current location are the same. -- t20: "So Let us play and enjoy the game you and I both love on the same level."
Azerrad InExile	Posted - 2007.05.31 07:18:00 - [12] Originally by: Trelennen OK. I should try to test it that again (as my tests with IGB functions were over a year ago, and as I didn't really need the station function, I didn't look much at it anyway at the time). Or simply have someone say which is the behaviour of the IGB function, as indeed it's most likely it's the same behaviour here. According to http://bughunters.addix.net/igbtest/IGB-commands.html EVE_STATIONAME The station name the player is docked or None -- t20: "So Let us play and enjoy the game you and I both love on the same level."
Azerrad InExile	Posted - 2007.05.31 08:24:00 - [13] Originally by: Frabala See the first screenshot of the dev blog. It clearly shows two of the charactes in "solar system" and not in stations. The incident supposedly happened during a siege in Immensea and the character at the time of the petition is docked back in Delve, probably a lot after the incident, just to justify the actions already taken. A detailed mention of the timeline, like what time the volunteer was banned and at what time the petition was made, would be very easy to find out. I think we already know 100% that Admiral whatever, has direct contact with friends in BoB, if he isn't himself in BoB, as proven also by him being 5-10 minutes after the D2 Titan kill in local, to mark the spot. Good catch. That is rather questionable to have all three characters docked if the whole mess went down while in space and while the ISD guy was orbiting the group. The idea of a petition filed well after the fact is looking more and more likely tbh. -- t20: "So Let us play and enjoy the game you and I both love on the same level."
Azerrad InExile	Posted - 2007.05.31 08:38:00 - [14] Edited by: Azerrad InExile on 31/05/2007 08:39:56 Originally by: Elmo Noguchi There's no time stamp on any of those...where are you guys seeing it? There isn't any [edit: on the petitions] that I can see. However, going by the events as presented by the ISD guy and the evidence given by CCP in the dev blog something is definitely amiss. edit: The e-mails do have timestamps which seem to match up with the events presented, the petition related to the ISD guy does not. -- t20: "So Let us play and enjoy the game you and I both love on the same level."
Azerrad InExile	Posted - 2007.05.31 18:11:00 - [15] Originally by: Bozse It's easy to accuse i can do it, so can u if u wish. example: A CCP dev spawned D2's second titan. Its also easy to provide seemingly useful but ultimately unconvincing evidence in response to allegations. For example, if CCP responded to that allegation with a screen shot showing a log of all Titans spawned within a certain date range, but didn't show the date range. It would be entirely possible that the titan was spawned, but at a time not covered by the date range shown in the screen shot. Assuming that you had provided some reasoning behind your allegation that CCP spawned the titan it wouldn't be out of the question to find the reasoning given more convincing than the screen shot given by CCP. -- t20: "So Let us play and enjoy the game you and I both love on the same level."
Azerrad InExile	Posted - 2007.05.31 18:16:00 - [16] Originally by: Kronius OK, i'm, really to lazy to go through this whole thread. I read the allegations, read the CCP reply and just now the Goonfleet reply. Has CCP replied to the second Goonfleet "Open letter"? Y or N (and link please) No reply from CCP has been given since the posting of the dev blog linked at the start of this thread. So that be: N (and not applicable). -- t20: "So Let us play and enjoy the game you and I both love on the same level."
Azerrad InExile	Posted - 2007.05.31 19:05:00 - [17] Edited by: Azerrad InExile on 31/05/2007 19:05:07 Originally by: Matthew Either CCP are willfully lying, or the accuser is falling somewhere between being mistaken, or lying themselves. Those aren't the only two options and its a fallacy to assume they are. It is also possible that CCP made a mistake presenting their evidence, the accuser made a mistake presenting their evidence, something is being left out of the discussion, etc... If the evidence presented by CCP is incomplete or misleading doesn't necessarily mean that its the result of an willful lie. Also the fact that the petition system was not designed for presenting evidence doesn't excuse CCP from providing clear and complete evidence on their side. Granted it might not be in the format of a convenient single screen shot, but thats hardly an excuse for leaving out critical information, assuming of course that CCP is interested in presenting a convincing case. -- t20: "So Let us play and enjoy the game you and I both love on the same level."
Azerrad InExile	Posted - 2007.05.31 22:32:00 - [18] Originally by: Moving Along Your logic is flawed. It would be a GREAT example if this one line actually paralleled what happened with MSN here: Quote: "One day you are implicated as the prime suspect in a serious crime." Sorry buddy. I do like the clarity of your example though. A little more analogous to the current situation, but the same basic idea: If you are friends with a judge, and you sue someone for whatever reason (or conversely someone sues you for whatever reason), the judge must excuse himself from the trial due to a potential conflict of interest. The same should be done with CCP GM/DEVs (judges) and players (plaintiff/defendent) in petition (lawsuit) related matters. -- t20: "So Let us play and enjoy the game you and I both love on the same level."

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